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10.4 416 Suppressor Options?

Tankboy

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Hey guys, I was wondering what suppressors some of you might recommend for a 10.4 non vented 416 upper? I think surefire made something for them that also incorporated the use of their buffer weight/spring? I was also considering waiting for the B&T offerings and seeing if their Rotex V would be a suitable candidate. I wasn't able to determine if you're better off just switching out the GB for a vented one and if any complications would arise doing that since my 416 is an original heavy barrel upper. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or insights and feel free to share pics of yours, I love looking to see how others set their stuff up.
 

Inept_K

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Once my stamp clears I'll be running a Sandman S on my vented 10.4; many will recommend the Surefire Socom556 RC2. HK often shows their guns with OSS cans as well.

Going from a non vented to vented block may require opening the gas port on the barrel by .1mm. As I understand factory non vented guns are .1mm smaller than their vented counter parts, I could be wrong though. You could try using a vented block, and it would very likely function suppressed, but unsuppressed you might see ejection/cycling issues. I do know that the spec for 10.4 vented guns is 1.6mm. Depending on who you ask non vented 10.4s might be 1.4mm or 1.5mm. I would be hesitant to mess with a factory 416 barrel.

Surefire did make what they called an H9 buffer, but I haven't seen them available recently so you may be better off using an A5 buffer system instead of monkeying with a factory 416 barrel. I feel that the A5 if you don't mind the extra length is much more efficient than the H9.
 

Mitchell

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My advice is don’t overthink it. Vented or non vented blocks will work just fine. If you decide to start “tuning” your gas system by all means go and have fun. Just remember, HK did everything for a reason and that reason was reliability and someone’s life being on the line. Yes, you can get it smoother, you can get it cleaner, you can get reduced muzzle climb, but remember everything is a trade off.

Just get your suppressor and throw it on. Enjoy it. If you feel the need to change something later, do it. But for God’s sake don’t modify the weapon before you even have a problem. Trust me, it will run just fine with or without a suppressor right out of the box. (provided you are using HK parts)

I personally like the lighter weight Ti options for a semi auto build. For me a full auto build will get a Surefire SB for the 416C. 10.5” could be Surefire SB or RC, either runs great. 14.5” take your pick, it’s tough to go wrong with anything.

Older OSS didn’t have QD’s so I don’t have any 416’s with them. I did put one (old style OSS) on a MK18 with a shot out barrel and it was really good. I don‘t own any of the newer style OSS so I can’t offer anything on them.

Lot’s of people will do their research and buy a suppressor then go online and say how great it is and how all other suppressors suck. Don’t buy into it. Get one you like and enjoy it. You will end up buying several more anyway!
 

Tankboy

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Once my stamp clears I'll be running a Sandman S on my vented 10.4; many will recommend the Surefire Socom556 RC2. HK often shows their guns with OSS cans as well.

Going from a non vented to vented block may require opening the gas port on the barrel by .1mm. As I understand factory non vented guns are .1mm smaller than their vented counter parts, I could be wrong though. You could try using a vented block, and it would very likely function suppressed, but unsuppressed you might see ejection/cycling issues. I do know that the spec for 10.4 vented guns is 1.6mm. Depending on who you ask non vented 10.4s might be 1.4mm or 1.5mm. I would be hesitant to mess with a factory 416 barrel.

Surefire did make what they called an H9 buffer, but I haven't seen them available recently so you may be better off using an A5 buffer system instead of monkeying with a factory 416 barrel. I feel that the A5 if you don't mind the extra length is much more efficient than the H9.
Ok cool, I'll look into the A5 system.
 

Tankboy

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My advice is don’t overthink it. Vented or non vented blocks will work just fine. If you decide to start “tuning” your gas system by all means go and have fun. Just remember, HK did everything for a reason and that reason was reliability and someone’s life being on the line. Yes, you can get it smoother, you can get it cleaner, you can get reduced muzzle climb, but remember everything is a trade off.

Just get your suppressor and throw it on. Enjoy it. If you feel the need to change something later, do it. But for God’s sake don’t modify the weapon before you even have a problem. Trust me, it will run just fine with or without a suppressor right out of the box. (provided you are using HK parts)

I personally like the lighter weight Ti options for a semi auto build. For me a full auto build will get a Surefire SB for the 416C. 10.5” could be Surefire SB or RC, either runs great. 14.5” take your pick, it’s tough to go wrong with anything.

Older OSS didn’t have QD’s so I don’t have any 416’s with them. I did put one (old style OSS) on a MK18 with a shot out barrel and it was really good. I don‘t own any of the newer style OSS so I can’t offer anything on them.

Lot’s of people will do their research and buy a suppressor then go online and say how great it is and how all other suppressors suck. Don’t buy into it. Get one you like and enjoy it. You will end up buying several more anyway!
Yeah I'm just trying to get the right one cause I know you got to be careful when increasing the carrier speed.
 

Mitchell

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Yeah I'm just trying to get the right one cause I know you got to be careful when increasing the carrier speed.

Understood. It’s always good to error on the side of caution.

Let me put your mind at ease and convince you there is no need to worry. The chances of anyone on this board having trouble with carrier speed is negligible.

Disclaimer - I am assuming we are using unmodified factory HK parts.

If you have a factory non vented upper with a standard tungsten buffer and standard buffer spring there is absolutely no way adding a suppressor will cause any problem. I did a back to back comparison with an old AF upper I have that is non vented and did a 30 round mag dump on full auto suppressed (Surefire RC) and unsuppressed. I then took the same upper and put a vented (non adjustable) gas block on it and repeated the exercise. There was no discernible difference in bolt speed but there was a small difference in gas in my face. Obviously the cyclic rate with the suppressor was greater but the vented gas block didn’t slow it down over the non vented block. This was done on full auto with all factory HK parts, the only difference was the vented gas block.

As unscientific as it seems it proves (to me at least) the system is over gassed to the point of even adding the vented block will not make a huge difference in bolt speed - not without using instruments at least. That is to say, from the shooter perspective it was the same.

The gas ports are oversized so the weapon will function when it is dirty, tired, full of mud, shot out, and just generally neglected. It’s expected to function in all of those conditions with any type of ammunition as if your life depends on it, because it often does. It’s overkill, just to make sure the rifle cycles.

—————————————-
Let me show you a video of a SIG Rattler I built. I made a 4 position adjustable gas regulator for it and increased the barrel port by more than I am willing to admit to. I demo this to PD’s all the time to break the ice and get everyone smiling. THIS IS EXCESSIVE BOLT SPEED. It blitzes my MP7 and my P90... and it .300 BLK.

 

Inept_K

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Ok cool, I'll look into the A5 system.

Yeah I'm just trying to get the right one cause I know you got to be careful when increasing the carrier speed.
As Mitchell said don't overthink things. If you get everything together and start finding issues, then you should troubleshoot, especially when it comes to gas systems. The H9/vents is meant for guns that are being run hard in the worst possible conditions and are expected to keep going no matter what.

I would definitely give the A5 a shot though, it doesn't do anything crazy and just makes for a more comfortable experience. Especially if you are worried about bolt speed (which I really wouldn't with a factory upper). I like that it is way easier to use to "tune" a gun than messing with the gas can be, and a whole lot less permanent in some cases.

TLDR: shoot first and see how it goes. Too gassy or violent cycling -> then try playing around with an A5. If gas is still an issue then we can talk about vents.
 

Tankboy

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Understood. It’s always good to error on the side of caution.

Let me put your mind at ease and convince you there is no need to worry. The chances of anyone on this board having trouble with carrier speed is negligible.

Disclaimer - I am assuming we are using unmodified factory HK parts.

If you have a factory non vented upper with a standard tungsten buffer and standard buffer spring there is absolutely no way adding a suppressor will cause any problem. I did a back to back comparison with an old AF upper I have that is non vented and did a 30 round mag dump on full auto suppressed (Surefire RC) and unsuppressed. I then took the same upper and put a vented (non adjustable) gas block on it and repeated the exercise. There was no discernible difference in bolt speed but there was a small difference in gas in my face. Obviously the cyclic rate with the suppressor was greater but the vented gas block didn’t slow it down over the non vented block. This was done on full auto with all factory HK parts, the only difference was the vented gas block.

As unscientific as it seems it proves (to me at least) the system is over gassed to the point of even adding the vented block will not make a huge difference in bolt speed - not without using instruments at least. That is to say, from the shooter perspective it was the same.

The gas ports are oversized so the weapon will function when it is dirty, tired, full of mud, shot out, and just generally neglected. It’s expected to function in all of those conditions with any type of ammunition as if your life depends on it, because it often does. It’s overkill, just to make sure the rifle cycles.

—————————————-
Let me show you a video of a SIG Rattler I built. I made a 4 position adjustable gas regulator for it and increased the barrel port by more than I am willing to admit to. I demo this to PD’s all the time to break the ice and get everyone smiling. THIS IS EXCESSIVE BOLT SPEED. It blitzes my MP7 and my P90... and it .300 BLK.

Awesome, thanks for the help!
 

Tankboy

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As Mitchell said don't overthink things. If you get everything together and start finding issues, then you should troubleshoot, especially when it comes to gas systems. The H9/vents is meant for guns that are being run hard in the worst possible conditions and are expected to keep going no matter what.

I would definitely give the A5 a shot though, it doesn't do anything crazy and just makes for a more comfortable experience. Especially if you are worried about bolt speed (which I really wouldn't with a factory upper). I like that it is way easier to use to "tune" a gun than messing with the gas can be, and a whole lot less permanent in some cases.

TLDR: shoot first and see how it goes. Too gassy or violent cycling -> then try playing around with an A5. If gas is still an issue then we can talk about vents.
I appreciate it! Thanks!
 
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