Ensio Firearms KAR-21 rifle

[Barn Owl Lover]

Could this maybe be a contender for the joint Finnish/Swedish rifle? Maybe, but one, it seems that from what some have said that HK or maybe FN might have a foot in the door with the HK416 or 433, or the FN SCAR (Swedish spec ops already use 416s and Finnish spec ops use some SCARs), and this seems right now to be aimed mostly at commercial or LE use. Nonetheless this is an interesting rifle. It seems to basically be a FN SCAR/AK hybrid in concept. It's built sort of like a SCAR or HK433 as far as layout, construction, and using a short stroke piston. But the bolt is a hybrid AR/AK bolt. It uses a mult-lug bolt, but uses an AK-type carrier and a fixed ejector.

More at this site, including a launch video:

KAR-rifle – KAR Multi caliber rifle

www.kar-rifle.com

Photos and article (in Finnish):

KAR-21 Ensio Firearms ensiesittely

KAR-21 Ensio Firearms kiväärijärjestelmän ensiesittely.

spolerikois.com

 

[AGG]

Looks familiar.

Tony

 

[Kertlund]

Nah, its far too expensive for that. 3799€.
Its more aimed for Finnish reservist shooters/sport shooters, police special units and military special forces.
Its hella expensive but ik many of us Finns will buy it because its Finnish design/manufacture.

If we replace our Rk-62 and 95 it will most likely be the Sako K-22 Ar-15 variant made in Finland. But at the moment Rk-62 is not planned to be replaced, only the SVD Dragunov and the ~100 year old Mosin receiver marksman rifles.

 

[AGG]

Nah, its far too expensive for that. 3799€.
Its more aimed for Finnish reservist shooters/sport shooters, police special units and military special forces.
Its hella expensive but ik many of us Finns will buy it because its Finnish design/manufacture.

If we replace our Rk-62 and 95 it will most likely be the Sako K-22 Ar-15 variant made in Finland. But at the moment Rk-62 is not planned to be replaced, only the SVD Dragunov and the ~100 year old Mosin receiver marksman rifles.

Welcome to the site.
Personally, I would stay with the RK 62 and RK 95 TP, especially for reliability.

Tony

 

[Kertlund]

Welcome to the site.
Personally, I would stay with the RK 62 and RK 95 TP, especially for reliability.

Tony

Facts, most likely we will only change when the rifles start to rot. FDF seems to be going with the "quantity has its own quality" style. Not that I disagree with it, I dont.

 

[Barn Owl Lover]

Actually, the Firearm Blog reported that both Finland and Sweden are jointly looking for a new rifle to supplement or replace the AK5 and the RK62:

Sweden And Finland To Work Together To Procure New Service Rifle

Sweden and Finland are going to procure the next service rifle together. Which caliber will they go for, and which rifle?

www.thefirearmblog.com

As you said, at it's current price point, the KAR-21 is probably more expensive than a HK416 or 433, or a SCAR. And even if they bought something new tomorrow, the RK62s and AK5s would be around for a while. Belgium bought FN SCARs to replace the FN FNC a few years ago, and a lot of second line/reserve and even some first line units are still using the FNC. And even if HK were awarded the German Army contract for the 416 A8 tomorrow, it might not be until 2023/24 before the 416 A8 is seen in large numbers between HK's production of them, the sheer number of serviceable G36s in use or in storage, and the usual issues with getting a new rifle into service in peacetime.

Point being I don't think this is a serious contender for any replacement program right now. I don't think that Ensio can even make them in the numbers needed/wanted without contracting it/licensing it to someone else, and Ensio seem to just be aiming it at LE and commerical (LE might be the reason for the full auto versions).

 

[Kertlund]

Actually, the Firearm Blog reported that both Finland and Sweden are jointly looking for a new rifle to supplement or replace the AK5 and the RK62:

Sweden And Finland To Work Together To Procure New Service Rifle

Sweden and Finland are going to procure the next service rifle together. Which caliber will they go for, and which rifle?

www.thefirearmblog.com

Idk what firearms blog is about but they sure aint telling the truth to you.

As it turns out, TFB just used google translate instead of someone who knows Swedish, but as one who does also speak Swedish, I can say TFB left few important keywords out of their text.

We (Finland) are only replacing our marksman rifles SVD Dragunov and Mosin receiver guns.
Sweden is the only one planning to replace main rifles rn. Finnish Defence Forces made the decision few years ago to modernize Rk-62's instead of replacing them.
Sweden is just looking at a possible co-procurement so each gun in the deal would be somewhat cheaper due to higher bulk purchase. But co-procurement will only happen if Sweden chooses Sako, FDF has no reason to choose anything else, especially when Sako is designing the gun for Finnish use specifically, with blessings from Beretta.

 

[Barn Owl Lover]

If that's the case, it seems that the RK62 and 95 might not be going anywhere for a while. Also odd (IMO) is, given that Sako is owned by Beretta, why not look at say the Beretta ARX-160 (available in 7.62x39mm), or the ARX-200 even (which IMO is much better than the -160, and, though I don't know if they made it to production, but there were supposed to be conversion kits to 7.62x39 and 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem. from 7.62mm NATO/.308 Win). I could maybe seen Finland adopting the HK433 for a foreign rifle, since HK intended to market a 7.62x39mm version (though I don't know how far that's gotten), but in the distant future.

I also don't see what Finland would gain by adopting an AR-15, given that the RK62 is a provent commodity (granted, the AR-15 is now, too), and IMO the AR-15 is to a degree ergonomically backward (fixed stock like the RK-62, rear mounted charging handle, same reasons I actually slightly object to the adoption of the HK416 by the German Army over the 433 or the updated G36). I also see the Sako AR-15 project either for commercial use or maybe they might offer it to Sweden in 5.56mm. That said, it seems that Sweden is looking at HK as their number 1 contender based on what some people with ties to the Swedish Armed Forces are saying in TFB's comment section on that article.

As for DMR's and sniper rifles, Finland is certainly spoiled for choice. Sako and Tikka make many fine bolt action rifles in .308 and .338, including the TRG which is already used by some armed forces. For semi autos, maybe the .308 KAR-21 might appeal to replace the SVD. Also depends on what they want there. For a DMR that doesn't weight a ton, there's the ARX-200, the LMT MARS .308 (similar to the L129 Sharpshooter) standard FN SCAR 17 and the HK417. For a hard core semi auto sniper, there's the SCAR HPR/SCAR 20, and the HK G28 (AKA HK241) version of the 417.

 

[Kertlund]

If that's the case, it seems that the RK62 and 95 might not be going anywhere for a while. Also odd (IMO) is, given that Sako is owned by Beretta, why not look at say the Beretta ARX-160 (available in 7.62x39mm), or the ARX-200 even (which IMO is much better than the -160, and, though I don't know if they made it to production, but there were supposed to be conversion kits to 7.62x39 and 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem. from 7.62mm NATO/.308 Win). I could maybe seen Finland adopting the HK433 for a foreign rifle, since HK intended to market a 7.62x39mm version (though I don't know how far that's gotten), but in the distant future.

I also don't see what Finland would gain by adopting an AR-15, given that the RK62 is a provent commodity (granted, the AR-15 is now, too), and IMO the AR-15 is to a degree ergonomically backward (fixed stock like the RK-62, rear mounted charging handle, same reasons I actually slightly object to the adoption of the HK416 by the German Army over the 433 or the updated G36). I also see the Sako AR-15 project either for commercial use or maybe they might offer it to Sweden in 5.56mm. That said, it seems that Sweden is looking at HK as their number 1 contender based on what some people with ties to the Swedish Armed Forces are saying in TFB's comment section on that article.

As for DMR's and sniper rifles, Finland is certainly spoiled for choice. Sako and Tikka make many fine bolt action rifles in .308 and .338, including the TRG which is already used by some armed forces. For semi autos, maybe the .308 KAR-21 might appeal to replace the SVD. Also depends on what they want there. For a DMR that doesn't weight a ton, there's the ARX-200, the LMT MARS .308 (similar to the L129 Sharpshooter) standard FN SCAR 17 and the HK417. For a hard core semi auto sniper, there's the SCAR HPR/SCAR 20, and the HK G28 (AKA HK241) version of the 417.

There is really no reason for us to switch to an inferior calibre like 5.56 in our environment from 7,62 Soviet. In forest terrain 7,62 is superior due to it not being affected by trees as much as 5.56 is, thats one of the main reasons we have kept 7,62 Soviet for so long.

Also to the ARX discussion, it was tested in FDF but not chosen, the Rk-62 upgrade project was chosen over it. One of the main reasons also being the necessary switch from 7,62 Soviet.

Regarding the DMR switch, its almost 99,99% confirmed to be Sako, as FDF has signed a letter of intent with Sako. Quote below in official English version of the letter.
"The Defence Forces Logistics Command and Sako Ltd have signed a letter of intent regarding research and development of a family of rifles and preparation of the procurement of a rifle system. The rifle system is intended to consist of two different system configurations including a sniper rifle for sniper use and a semi- automatic rifle for the squad’s designated marksman."

Here is an picture of the Sako gun, a bit bad quality tho, leftmost gun seems to be the DMR, middle one could be a special forces rifle or a rifle for police units to replace older Ar-15s and G36 rifles. Rightmost is just a standard Sako TRG M10. All three Sako Sr-15's have Ase Utra borelock on muzzle.

 

[Barn Owl Lover]

Actually, I did some research on the K-22 Sako rifles, and right now (at least the most recent item I read), the K-22 is an AR-10, in .308 Win/7.62mm NATO caliber, and is Finland's #1 choice to replace most of the SVDs and M85 Mosin-Nagant based rifles. Sweden could also be looking at it as a DMR, though they've been exposed to the HK417 in a similar role in spec ops. If that's the case, it could come down to price vs performance like when Estonia bought LMT MARS rifles as the R-20 Rahe over the HK416/417. The 416/417 out-performed all comers in test, but the LMT MARS were close enough in performance and were seen as better value for money as far as a mass issue weapon (Estonian spec ops use the 416 A7 (Estonian spec is an A7/G95K hybrid) and the 417 A2, though).

Also from the Corporal Fisk article, this might also give Sako a chance to make a self-loading firearm independent from owner Beretta (though they made RK62s under license from Valmet and bought Valmet by the time the RK95 entered production). This could be useful in the future when the RK62s and 95s are due for phase out (though not expected for at least a decade), and if Finland do opt for NATO calibers in the future--not just 5.56mm or 7.62x51mm, but if a version of the Sig 6.8x51mm/.277 Fury or the True Velocity 6.8x47mm round becomes NATO standard if the US Army's NGSW program yields fruit. And it'd give Finland to still buy an independently developed, home-field-made service rifle.

While Finland are looking for a new sniper rifle/DMR, it does seem that Sweden are looking for a more comprehensive program to replace or at least supplement the AK5 (FN FNC), the PSG-90 by Accuracy International, and the FN Minimi LMG. That's where I think that HK (and others) more factor into the equation.