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German Army rifle tender debacle

Barn Owl Lover

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I've been talking about this on HKPro and I'd like to see what you guys' take is on it.

Here's a brief summary. In 2015, it came to light rumors of issues with the HK G36 rifle having accuracy problems due to overheating in Afghanistan. Then German Minister of Defense Ursula Von Der Layen declares the G36 obsolete and wants a new rifle tender to happen (which was supposed to happen in a few years anyways as the G36 was planned to be phased out in a few years). In 2017, various companies, such as HK, Haenel/Caracal, Steyr/Rheinmetall, Sig Sauer and LMT submit rifles to the new tender. In 2018, only HK and Haenel are left, and initally the three rifles submitted (HK433, HK416 and MK556) didn't fully satisfy the tender. So they were given time to refine their designs. In 2019, all three rifles passed the tests with flying colors.

In Sept of 2020, Haenel's MK556 was judged the provisional winner. HK appealed, citing that Haenel used HK over the beach gas system parts, and Haenel was DQ'd after a German court verified HK's claim. Now in 2021, just weeks before announcement of an official winner, Magpul has sent in a complaint to HK and the German Army seeking clarification over HK's Gen 3 Pmags and if they'll be issued with the 416A8, citing possible patent infringement. There's a theory that Haenel/Caracal are at least in part behind this, as they may be using this as an excuse to try to retaliate against HK and the German Army over Haenel getting kicked out of the trial.

In theory, the courts and the German Government don't have to hear the claim or change the tender (which would essentially mean starting over), but they might nevertheless look into it for the sake of the image of impartiality.

What I'm asking is, in addition to opinions on this whole mess, is how the Bundeswher and the Government should proceed. Should they start over, just award the contract to HK for the 416A8, or just upgrade the G36 as HK suggested back in 2015? The latter would mean that some politicians in Germany would have backpedal and eat some crow, but there's an increasing number of politicians who want an end to the trials and are speaking up that the G36 isn't flawed, but is needing and deserving of some upgrades (which HK have made available for export customers).

I for one was hoping that the HK433 would win the tender, as I want more info and materials about it. But given that HK have decided to launch it and offer it for sale as soon as June, my issues with that have worn away. But overall the trial has boiled down to bitching and bickering, and the whole mess has been a showing of bureaucratic ineptitude.

I don't like to get political and know that's also in general frowned upon on this forum. But what do you guys make of this mess and what outcome do you want or find the most fair?
 

Guyanaman1963

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Just remember folks, pistol shooters dig HK, but chicks dig SCARs 😎
View attachment 3514
Nice set up! I like the Elcan and vertical grip/bi-pod. Is that DBAL, Steiner, Antipal etc?

ETA: My previous post talked about getting in touch with my feminine side... since I dig that gun as well... I’m really dreading my second shot tomorrow!:oops::oops::oops:
M.
 

MMissile

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Should just buy M4's, and be done with it. We've been shooting a lot more people, a lot longer. All that circle-jerking and back-door dealing.....LOL
 

Barn Owl Lover

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I say at this point either upgrade the G36 (which HK offered to do in 2015), or buy FN SCARs, CZ Bren 2s or Colt Canada AR-15s. A lot of this seems to just be stalling/delaying tactics. I've read that HK are hoping for delays to get orders for the 416F, 416N, M27 and M110A1 out the door to focus on the German order. Haenel are also being accused of doing this to delay the confirmation of tender. In this day and age, who knows what's really going on.
 

UltraFudd

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Nice set up! I like the Elcan and vertical grip/bi-pod. Is that DBAL, Steiner, Antipal etc?

ETA: My previous post talked about getting in touch with my feminine side... since I dig that gun as well... I’m really dreading my second shot tomorrow!:oops::oops::oops:
M.
DBAL-I2 FDE. I put the DBAL-A2 on my PS90 SBR. Two stamp Thursday.
8A5FC31F-A984-4334-A4DB-7B8FD0DB86B2.jpeg
 

UltraFudd

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Very nice CQB and setup--- looks like a fairly early green stock model. :unsure:

Tony
2006. Gen 2 pack. 😁

You ought to see it at night. Lights up the night at 200 yards with the IR illuminator. Pointers twice as far.
“24 hour service, no waiting” 😎
 

AGG

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2006. Gen 2 pack. 😁

You ought to see it at night. Lights up the night at 200 yards with the IR illuminator. Pointers twice as far.
“24 hour service, no waiting” 😎

You must be right at the TP cutoff (1 to 2) with that date. ;)

Tony
 

Skandar

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I've been talking about this on HKPro and I'd like to see what you guys' take is on it.

Here's a brief summary. In 2015, it came to light rumors of issues with the HK G36 rifle having accuracy problems due to overheating in Afghanistan. Then German Minister of Defense Ursula Von Der Layen declares the G36 obsolete and wants a new rifle tender to happen (which was supposed to happen in a few years anyways as the G36 was planned to be phased out in a few years). In 2017, various companies, such as HK, Haenel/Caracal, Steyr/Rheinmetall, Sig Sauer and LMT submit rifles to the new tender. In 2018, only HK and Haenel are left, and initally the three rifles submitted (HK433, HK416 and MK556) didn't fully satisfy the tender. So they were given time to refine their designs. In 2019, all three rifles passed the tests with flying colors.

In Sept of 2020, Haenel's MK556 was judged the provisional winner. HK appealed, citing that Haenel used HK over the beach gas system parts, and Haenel was DQ'd after a German court verified HK's claim. Now in 2021, just weeks before announcement of an official winner, Magpul has sent in a complaint to HK and the German Army seeking clarification over HK's Gen 3 Pmags and if they'll be issued with the 416A8, citing possible patent infringement. There's a theory that Haenel/Caracal are at least in part behind this, as they may be using this as an excuse to try to retaliate against HK and the German Army over Haenel getting kicked out of the trial.

In theory, the courts and the German Government don't have to hear the claim or change the tender (which would essentially mean starting over), but they might nevertheless look into it for the sake of the image of impartiality.

What I'm asking is, in addition to opinions on this whole mess, is how the Bundeswher and the Government should proceed. Should they start over, just award the contract to HK for the 416A8, or just upgrade the G36 as HK suggested back in 2015? The latter would mean that some politicians in Germany would have backpedal and eat some crow, but there's an increasing number of politicians who want an end to the trials and are speaking up that the G36 isn't flawed, but is needing and deserving of some upgrades (which HK have made available for export customers).

I for one was hoping that the HK433 would win the tender, as I want more info and materials about it. But given that HK have decided to launch it and offer it for sale as soon as June, my issues with that have worn away. But overall the trial has boiled down to bitching and bickering, and the whole mess has been a showing of bureaucratic ineptitude.

I don't like to get political and know that's also in general frowned upon on this forum. But what do you guys make of this mess and what outcome do you want or find the most fair?
I haven't read the legal documentation, just what's been in general news and on the other site, so I don't know what's "fair".

It seems to me that there can't be that much that is truly unique anymore in Magpul's design (and how old is the design...don't patents run out after 20 years?).

As far as what outcome I want?

Well, if HK sold them the 433 and determined that a civilian variant made in the US was a natural offshoot I wouldn't complain. Of course, if I'm sticking with levels of probability I'm also wanting mine delivered in a brand new Ferrari by three strippers carrying (to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy) a note from my wife saying, "Have a great weekend".
And 2019 ammo prices.
 
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