RE: Ban lifted???

Not a fan of bump stocks. Tried one when they first came out but was problematic and we were glad we had a towering mountain as a backstop. I see the left is already using this as a political 'weapon' against the current SCOTUS (which are already under attack) in this critical election year. Bump stocks look stupid anyway. JM2C...
 
What I got from the decision was not so much about the stocks, but a continuing trend of decisions that these agencies (ATF in this case) need to stop making rules on their own. Congress can still change current law to ban the stocks if they so chose, but AFT can' go it own their own.

-E-
 
What I got from the decision was not so much about the stocks, but a continuing trend of decisions that these agencies (ATF in this case) need to stop making rules on their own. Congress can still change current law to ban the stocks if they so chose, but AFT can' go it own their own.

-E-
Correct. The next question might be, in what other instances has ATF done the same in principle? "Sporting Purpose", continual evolution of the Import scoresheet, the doctrine of constructive possession, "once a machine gun always a machine gun" although IIRC they were forced to back off that in court a couple times but still apply it for some reason I don't recall, still under that doctrine you could forget about deactivated MG's without paperwork like many other much more restrictive countries allow, heck we could even go back to open bolt semi's and suppressor parts in the early 1980's. Basically every ATF expansion on NFA '34, GCA '68, Import Ban '89, etc. There are a LOT of guns that ATF has disallowed for import for various reasons over the years since 1968, it would be nice to see some rollback.

You might be surpirised how many ATF folks understand that they need customers and don't really like stupid politically based stuff that loses them good will that is often in short supply. Walking around being disliked by many of the people you deal with gets old for anyone normal. You get the ones who enjoy their authority too much to be inhibited by that but I can tell you that in the 10 years I've been a licensee I have seen two cases like that and they were dealt with by their supervisors when the matter was brought to their attention.

It's my opinion that the impetis for this decision was a combination of actual law, and ATF raiding this guy at 6am for buying and selling guns as a hobby without an FFL. They never even had a conversation with him about it before they kicked his door in and killed him in front of his wife, who spent the next 5 hours in cuffs in an ATF vehicle while they hauled her husbands body out of the house in front of her. Pretty much the very last way she would ever have imagined her day beginning. There's stepping on your dick, and there's stepping on your dick while wearing golf shoes. This was "Golf Clown Shoes". He thinks a "no knock" raid is a home invasion, puts rounds into his own floor in front of them and is shot dead. And it's ruled justifiable. How much you want to bet the Judge saw that bit of news? His colleague who signed that no-knock warrant got that man killed, period. I hope he realizes that and feels like shit, because he should. What was he going to do, flush guns down the toliet? Huge motorcade of agents, "hours of darkness", when they could have arrested this guy at his job managing the local airport. This is the same BS that got 4 of their own guys killed at Waco because the Davidians didn't have a fear of engaging, didn't fire warning shots and used rifles, when the local Sheriff told them he'd call Koresh and have him come in. They didn't want that then, and they didn't want that in this case.


There are NUMEROUS cases in the last few years of home invasion crews wearing surplus body armor and "raid jackets" with security guard badges around their necks kicking people's doors in screaming "Police!" NO ONE can afford to take the chance that it's an actual raid and submit, horrible things happen to people who do that and guess wrong, and if they don't think they've done anything wrong why would they not assume criminal activity and defend themselves?" Those dudes are lucky he didn't do a rifle caliber mag dump into the fatal funnel they had not yet cleared instead of warning shots into the floor in front of them. Given the above, at the point where someone is violently entering your house you do not have time to safely determine who they really are, and as we have seen here, they probably would have killed him just for having a weapon in his hands when confronting them even if he had not fired in their direction. What this really means is, it doesn't really matter at the moment when both sides are facing each other with guns who it is, if you don't get them first, they're going to get you. "Better tried by twelve....." There have also been numerous cases where a homeowner (either innocent, "wrong address" or actual subject of a warrant) was able to open fire and cause casualties, resulting in LE pulling back and establishing a perimeter and eventually negotiating the surrender of the shooter. One guy was at the top of the landing with a pistol while his wife was on the phone 911 reporting a home invasion because they had walked up to the house and started breaking windows. When she gave dispatch the address.....because of his angle shooting down, one officer was hit in the leg and another in the vest. After they had pulled back and established a perimeter and comms with the suspect, he surrendered by opening the garage door and walking out naked to forestall being shot down in the driveway. Good chance that would have happened in that case. This is the same agency where three officers that gunned a former Army officer down in a parking lot after screaming conflicting commands at him and then opening fire when he attempted to comply were all found not guilty of any offense. Within a couple years two of the three were no longer employed, and one of them was arrested for selling a firearm to a convicted felon. I leave it to your judgement as to whose life was of more value to society. A "fear biter" with a badge is ALWAYS a liability and I say that having worn a badge myself in younger years. They'll start trouble because they're scared and trying to cover that by acting tough and they can't be relied on when things get serious. You don't want to be anywhere near someone like that.


It's a dog's dinner folks. Sending a stack in is a hostage rescue technique, it was never intended to be used for warrant service, it tends to encourage target fixation, and it's almost never really necessary. I say it's long past due that we re-evalute the use of SWAT teams for anything but saving peoples lives in actual hostage incidents, barricaded subjects, etc. This technique was used in Iraq every day and got a LOT of guys killed. The only reason it works is if people don't resist too much, basically. If they are armed and do so effectively you get your ass handed to you. The walls in some buildings in some countries will stop rounds, the ones here won't. You don't have to be able to see them, just to know where they are on the other side of concealment that will not stop your rounds. Dry wall and studs doesn't stop shit.

"Passive Defensive Measures". Retro fit is great but if you are building your own house or can do contractor level stuff, some very interesting possiblities exist.
 
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I've shot a few bump stocks and thought they were fun. I've shot shot a couple binary triggers and thought they were fun. I'm also the guy that was handed a post sample AK 47, I put it in semi auto and was bump firing it. When asked why I was doing that, I said. because i can. :ROFLMAO:
 
I have a few registered MG for a lot of years. It's more fun to let people shoot my stuff and me do silly stuff. Nehalem Man has been to my cabin and shot one of them. He is a good guy :)
 
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