MSOGDAWG
Well-known member
The MP5 is the 1911 of Submachine Guns
The MP5 is entering its twilight years as a serious professional firearm but maintains popularity, just like the 1911.
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Thoughts on this MP5 article??
- Thread starter MSOGDAWG
- Start date
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MSOGDAWG
Well-known member
Yeah agreed. I feel it has "Im an AR guy" slant to it. The MP5 is still a significant weapon for cqb. I mean just because your M4 locks to the rear? If your in that kinda fight MP5 or AR and you go dry you go to secondary, keep fighting and gas up the primary after you have fought to a good spot to do so.
There is also a difference in MOUT and CQB. Flashbangs vs frags vs shape charges vs det cord vs shotgun vs hooligan bar vs alot of other specific tools. I mean you can put a finishing nail in with a sledge if you have to but you usually wouldnt, right? Does that make a sledge irrelevant? No you use the right tool where the job calls for it and if you work hard enough you know how to use ALL the tools available.
There is also a difference in MOUT and CQB. Flashbangs vs frags vs shape charges vs det cord vs shotgun vs hooligan bar vs alot of other specific tools. I mean you can put a finishing nail in with a sledge if you have to but you usually wouldnt, right? Does that make a sledge irrelevant? No you use the right tool where the job calls for it and if you work hard enough you know how to use ALL the tools available.
Written like a guy who never had to run anything other than an AR. Sub guns have their niche or we wouldn't have such a plethora of existing and new sub gun offerings.
Also its obvious he never looked into how to accessorize an mp5 outside of some off the legacy hard to find and thus pricey accessories he mentions WRT the mp5. Lots of options in the hg, light, mag, stock, and optic mounting options across many price points and styles.
Lets face it, HK is HK and has always been pricey even when they decidedly moved down market with the UMP. However the author of that article goes on about sub gun contemporaries of the mp5 as hefty blow back designs, then goes on to compare the price and performance of those blowback guns along with new ones like the UMP, cz scorpion or b&t apc9 (full disclosure i have all of these guns) with the mp5 and that is just silly.
The UMP was not a technical evolution in the HK family tree the authors claims it to be. Rather it is in many ways a step back as it is just a blow back design in a lighter polymer reciever format with different ergos. The UMP was in fact primarily a cost cutting move/nod away from the mp5 format in both the manufacturing realm and as a nod to the agency procurement and bean counters. It also had some modularity baked in for markets that were in flux for caliber selection hence the 40 cal offering. Don't get me wrong, I do like my ump but I just don't love it like i love my mp5's.
Also ump mags are not cheap either so why hate on the mp5 for that? HK is and always has been a premium product and so it always commands premium prices on items like mags. So why complain, because the #1 reason sa/fa guns malfunction is mag induced malfunctions. Hk mags excel in reliability and if you don't understand that then im sorry for your ignorance, quality costs $$.
Also those other guns mentioned have their own manual of arms so whats the authors point on reloads in comparison to the AR if your talking about other sub gun platforms? If you want an mp5 with a bho step into an mp5-40/10 and yes I have a few of these too.
The mp5 is not the right tool for a lot of mil/leo jobs ok....but whoever said It also doesn't have a place in the civilian world has never run a steel match with one especially in FA or seen how quiet an and controllable the SD is and why it's still the gold standard in suppressed fire FA or not.
Also around that time frame the leo market was changing and beginning to lean into the AR platform and away from sub guns due to many factors the which the most notable were its shrinking OAL without reducing its reliability which is important for leo entry teams conducting operations.
Do I love the mp5? Of course, but I am not blind to its faults and limitations.
The author of that article is a prime example of a buffoon of the highest caliber that didn't do the necessary due diligence and research this topic merits. He instead used his preference, bias, and opinions in this article and unfortunately he has a platform to broadcast it.
Also its obvious he never looked into how to accessorize an mp5 outside of some off the legacy hard to find and thus pricey accessories he mentions WRT the mp5. Lots of options in the hg, light, mag, stock, and optic mounting options across many price points and styles.
Lets face it, HK is HK and has always been pricey even when they decidedly moved down market with the UMP. However the author of that article goes on about sub gun contemporaries of the mp5 as hefty blow back designs, then goes on to compare the price and performance of those blowback guns along with new ones like the UMP, cz scorpion or b&t apc9 (full disclosure i have all of these guns) with the mp5 and that is just silly.
The UMP was not a technical evolution in the HK family tree the authors claims it to be. Rather it is in many ways a step back as it is just a blow back design in a lighter polymer reciever format with different ergos. The UMP was in fact primarily a cost cutting move/nod away from the mp5 format in both the manufacturing realm and as a nod to the agency procurement and bean counters. It also had some modularity baked in for markets that were in flux for caliber selection hence the 40 cal offering. Don't get me wrong, I do like my ump but I just don't love it like i love my mp5's.
Also ump mags are not cheap either so why hate on the mp5 for that? HK is and always has been a premium product and so it always commands premium prices on items like mags. So why complain, because the #1 reason sa/fa guns malfunction is mag induced malfunctions. Hk mags excel in reliability and if you don't understand that then im sorry for your ignorance, quality costs $$.
Also those other guns mentioned have their own manual of arms so whats the authors point on reloads in comparison to the AR if your talking about other sub gun platforms? If you want an mp5 with a bho step into an mp5-40/10 and yes I have a few of these too.
The mp5 is not the right tool for a lot of mil/leo jobs ok....but whoever said It also doesn't have a place in the civilian world has never run a steel match with one especially in FA or seen how quiet an and controllable the SD is and why it's still the gold standard in suppressed fire FA or not.
Also around that time frame the leo market was changing and beginning to lean into the AR platform and away from sub guns due to many factors the which the most notable were its shrinking OAL without reducing its reliability which is important for leo entry teams conducting operations.
Do I love the mp5? Of course, but I am not blind to its faults and limitations.
The author of that article is a prime example of a buffoon of the highest caliber that didn't do the necessary due diligence and research this topic merits. He instead used his preference, bias, and opinions in this article and unfortunately he has a platform to broadcast it.
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Grease Gunner
Well-known member
Not one of my builds as they haven’t been released into the Wild.....yet.....but they are getting close to being released.
Brad4065
Well-known member
What @flybynt said. And I'll add similar;The MP5 is the 1911 of Submachine Guns
The MP5 is entering its twilight years as a serious professional firearm but maintains popularity, just like the 1911.
This guy is an idiot, commenting on things he has no knowledge of.
1. So if you need more proof, move to the HK53, same size,
more sting, and about same weight.
2. I put the MP5 with the Sig P228/229....you can take them all
apart blind folded, field clean and put back together with your eyes closed.
3. BHO....as ^^^ said, go MP5 10/40.....and yes I've got a couple.
4. There's a reason why these are still operating within the alphabet groups.
5. There's never been a better site system created. Line up the two circles
and drive nails with it. Easy peasy.
In summary, idiots are a dime a dozen. Can't believe someone actually paid him
to write that garbage.
Cheers and thanks for sharing!!!!!!!
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This is pure rage bait, take a stab at something sacred and reap the rewards as angry people that know you're full of it share the link with their friends.
Gun publications slipped into the bait/shill/bait/repeat cycle and it unfortunately shows.
As for the "points" he makes. I hear them from everyone on the internet, and a hand full more uninformed arguments on top of it.
I don't know how many times this guy has touched off a 10" 5.56 in a structure but if he did the advantages of a 9" 9mm would be immediately apparent. Especially for high speed guys that may be more sensitive to pressure changes from previous damage (IEDs, breaching charges, grenades, etc..) ear pro doesn't cover your nose and eyes.
This is similar to the new gospel that "full auto is useless." Coming from guys who tried controlling a post-86 Mk18 lookalike at a rental range once. Try it with an MP5, M3a1, UZI, you can practically trace organs with bullets.
The reload bit is just the new trend in timed flat range drills being substituted for OE. Highly beneficial for motor skill development and gaging skill development, but not the holy scripture of developing TTP.
(But hey, we're all preaching to the choir here lol)
Gun publications slipped into the bait/shill/bait/repeat cycle and it unfortunately shows.
As for the "points" he makes. I hear them from everyone on the internet, and a hand full more uninformed arguments on top of it.
I don't know how many times this guy has touched off a 10" 5.56 in a structure but if he did the advantages of a 9" 9mm would be immediately apparent. Especially for high speed guys that may be more sensitive to pressure changes from previous damage (IEDs, breaching charges, grenades, etc..) ear pro doesn't cover your nose and eyes.
This is similar to the new gospel that "full auto is useless." Coming from guys who tried controlling a post-86 Mk18 lookalike at a rental range once. Try it with an MP5, M3a1, UZI, you can practically trace organs with bullets.
The reload bit is just the new trend in timed flat range drills being substituted for OE. Highly beneficial for motor skill development and gaging skill development, but not the holy scripture of developing TTP.
(But hey, we're all preaching to the choir here lol)
Grease Gunner
Well-known member
Morons will moron......but if I read it on the innerweb then its just gotta be true....just like them there 9mm bullwets will blow a lung clean out of a body......
"LAPD had the rounds bounce right off a guys jacket!"
Grease Gunner
Well-known member
Show us on the AR15 where the MP5 hurt you and we will make it better.
This sentiment is one of the annoying side effects of social media culture these days. Namely, several prominent social influencers on YouTube (which kind of emboldens the blogger world) who regularly comment about the MP5 being "archaic" and "totally outclassed" by newer offerings like the SIG MPX. It's popular for some like that to dunk on old/mature platforms for the entertainment value. The problem with such broad statements like that is there's never any nuance discussed. Also, they usually don't clarify what the application is.
I liken it to people arguing about pistol performance and differences in shooting splits, for a defensive pistol. Platform A (maybe a striker or SA gun) makes it a little easier to shoot sub 0.20 second splits. Platform B (maybe a DA/SA) might be 0.05-0.10 seconds slower on average. They argue while completely ignoring the subject of shooting at assessment speed. In essence, maybe 0.25-0.35 second splits is assessment speed for most people (I'm making this up, but probably in the ballpark), in which case both platforms are more than capable. The question then becomes, what other capabilities does the platform need to meet? Maybe you need a trigger that's forgiving enough that it's not a liability (e.g. DA/SA or DAO vs a competition grade 1911 trigger)? Regardless, it's focusing on the few percent of the situation often at the expense of everything else potentially good.
Also, often these types of detractors are coming from the standpoint of maximum competition speed, or CQB and HR speed, which is sort of ridiculous to use as a baseline. It's just not what most people are doing most of the time. Ballistic wounding factors aside, if I have a need for a PCC, I'd much rather have a platform that's mature, robust, performant enough, and flexible enough to setup for my own needs. The MP5 does that really well IMO, even if there are some minor annoyances with ergonomics, manual of arms, etc.
I liken it to people arguing about pistol performance and differences in shooting splits, for a defensive pistol. Platform A (maybe a striker or SA gun) makes it a little easier to shoot sub 0.20 second splits. Platform B (maybe a DA/SA) might be 0.05-0.10 seconds slower on average. They argue while completely ignoring the subject of shooting at assessment speed. In essence, maybe 0.25-0.35 second splits is assessment speed for most people (I'm making this up, but probably in the ballpark), in which case both platforms are more than capable. The question then becomes, what other capabilities does the platform need to meet? Maybe you need a trigger that's forgiving enough that it's not a liability (e.g. DA/SA or DAO vs a competition grade 1911 trigger)? Regardless, it's focusing on the few percent of the situation often at the expense of everything else potentially good.
Also, often these types of detractors are coming from the standpoint of maximum competition speed, or CQB and HR speed, which is sort of ridiculous to use as a baseline. It's just not what most people are doing most of the time. Ballistic wounding factors aside, if I have a need for a PCC, I'd much rather have a platform that's mature, robust, performant enough, and flexible enough to setup for my own needs. The MP5 does that really well IMO, even if there are some minor annoyances with ergonomics, manual of arms, etc.
Yes I agree with this!This guy obviously got Butt-Hurt when someone brought an MP5 to his AR dance party.............And She got all the attention
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