Why are people hating on the UMP's so much?

[dirtyharriett]

I prefer the HK roller lock PCCs as much as the next HK enthusiast. I do however still love the look and feel of the HK UMP conversions. I know they are bulkier than the MP5 platform and not as smooth
but there is just something about them that will always hold a special place in my heart. It is probably because a USC to UMP conversion was my first HK long gun and I still have it. I like this platform so much that I built two conversions... one in 9mm and one in 45acp. In the future let us try to be a little nicer to UMP's... they deserve it.

 

[AGG]

I prefer the HK roller lock PCCs as much as the next HK enthusiast. I do however still love the look and feel of the HK UMP conversions. I know they are bulkier than the MP5 platform and not as smooth
but there is just something about them that will always hold a special place in my heart. It is probably because a USC to UMP conversion was my first HK long gun and I still have it. I like this platform so much that I built two conversions... one in 9mm and one in 45acp. In the future let us try to be a little nicer to UMP's... they deserve it.

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Very nice--- especially in .45 ACP.

Tony

 

[Lamont]

An answer to a question no one was asking in the late 90's......

 

[MMissile]

I was gonna due a 9mm conversion at one point. My whole collection and mindset changed, once I bought a sear. I think they're cool looking.

 

[eodinert]

They shoot terribly. There are a few other issues, but that's the main one. Don't let your love for the UMP camouflage that fact.

 

[CIH8240]

I prefer the HK roller lock PCCs as much as the next HK enthusiast. I do however still love the look and feel of the HK UMP conversions. I know they are bulkier than the MP5 platform and not as smooth
but there is just something about them that will always hold a special place in my heart. It is probably because a USC to UMP conversion was my first HK long gun and I still have it. I like this platform so much that I built two conversions... one in 9mm and one in 45acp. In the future let us try to be a little nicer to UMP's... they deserve it.

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Very nice looking gun!

 

[Guyanaman1963]

James Bond used it and didn’t have a problem with it so why would I?
I like them and plan to get one eventually.
M!

 

[dirtyharriett]

They shoot terribly. There are a few other issues, but that's the main one. Don't let your love for the UMP camouflage that fact.

I've owned almost 20 different PCC's and don't agree that they shoot horrible at all. I'm afraid I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this one.

 

[wscato]

How do you like the Eotech's on yours. Tom just did a conversion for me and still on the fence about optics. I'm down to the Eotech XPS2 or an Aimpoint Pro. I like what @toosixty did with his.

 

[dirtyharriett]

How do you like the Eotech's on yours. Tom just did a conversion for me and still on the fence about optics. I'm down to the Eotech XPS2 or an Aimpoint Pro. I like what @toosixty did with his.

I really like the Eotechs on mine. The UMPs are kinda thick and I think the Eotechs look proper on them more so than other smaller sighting systems. The flip magnifiers are nice too because these old eyes ain't getting any younger.

 

[Lumbergh]

Same reason that I don't really like shooting my Scorpion Evo3 SBR.

Snappy recoil from that big heavy bolt sliding back and forth in a light polymer receiver.

Also, very expensive to build / aquire given the competition in the PCC market. HK never made the UMP readily available, so the cost to buy a USC+UMP kit is quite high.
Even buying a TB receiver and a UMP kit is out of most shoppers budgets (outside of die hard HK fans).

The Omega products seem to have unresolved teething problems that Omega doesn't seem to address.

So there it is.

The UMP is undeniably sexy. The cost and shooting experience, not so much.

 

[dirtyharriett]

For me the sexiness of it and the fact that it is HK is WORTH the price of admission. I have never thought of the recoil as snappy but I guess that is just me. Of course I like the smoothness of the MP5 platform better but not so much as to ignore UMP ownership. I AM A DIEHARD HK fangirl and I do not apologize for this.

 

[catinthefurnace]

I prefer the HK roller lock PCCs as much as the next HK enthusiast. I do however still love the look and feel of the HK UMP conversions. I know they are bulkier than the MP5 platform and not as smooth
but there is just something about them that will always hold a special place in my heart. It is probably because a USC to UMP conversion was my first HK long gun and I still have it. I like this platform so much that I built two conversions... one in 9mm and one in 45acp. In the future let us try to be a little nicer to UMP's... they deserve it.

They are no doubt super cool guns. But, I think the reason why they get hate is that due to their straight blowback design they lack a certain specialness. Roller delayed blowback gives you a more mild controllable recoil impulse. The B&T stuff, though also straight blowback, at least give you the fancy hydraulic buffer system, which works surprisingly well.

The UMP is just too "standard", and as others have said they tend to have snappy recoil when compared to the competition with actions that are delayed by means other than strictly massive mass. This factor combined with their price for the US market I think is the source of the "hate". Somewhat justified, but probably mostly unfair.

 

[dirtyharriett]

They are no doubt super cool guns. But, I think the reason why they get hate is that due to their straight blowback design they lack a certain specialness. Roller delayed blowback gives you a more mild controllable recoil impulse. The B&T stuff, though also straight blowback, at least give you the fancy hydraulic buffer system, which works surprisingly well.

The UMP is just too "standard", and as others have said they tend to have snappy recoil when compared to the competition with actions that are delayed by means other than strictly massive mass. This factor combined with their price for the US market I think is the source of the "hate". Somewhat justified, but probably mostly unfair.

I've owned 15 B&T's .... 8 of them were PCC's. I only have 4 of the PCC's left and they are in the process of being sold. I am VERY familiar with B&T's hydraulic buffer system but yet they are heading out the door. In the end... I like my HK UMPs better than the B&T's. It works for me.. that is all that matters.

 

[catinthefurnace]

I've owned 15 B&T's .... 8 of them were PCC's. I only have 4 of the PCC's left and they are in the process of being sold. I am VERY familiar with B&T's hydraulic buffer system but yet they are heading out the door. In the end... I like my HK UMPs better than the B&T's. It works for me.. that is all that matters.

To each his/her own. And yes, that is all that matters. But, the APC has an objectively softer recoil impulse than the UMP. No getting around that. One can, and should have personal preferences, but we shouldn't ignore the objective differences between products.

 

[dirtyharriett]

To each his/her own. And yes, that is all that matters. But, the APC has an objectively softer recoil impulse than the UMP. No getting around that. One can, and should have personal preferences, but we shouldn't ignore the objective differences between products.

I am not ignoring the differences... I just think that the UMP platform deserves more love than it gets. Yes it is bulkier than it needed to be... doesn't have upgraded recoil management like a few of the newer systems but it is still a great platform in my obviously minority opinion. It just seems to me that hating on the UMP has become trendy and it gets more hate than it deserves. There are a TON of crappy PCC designs out there and the UMP is no where near the bottom of the pile IMHO.

 

[catinthefurnace]

I am not ignoring the differences... I just think that the UMP platform deserves more love than it gets. Yes it is bulkier than it needed to be... doesn't have upgraded recoil management like a few of the newer systems but it is still a great platform in my obviously minority opinion. It just seems to me that hating on the UMP has become trendy and it gets more hate than it deserves. There are a TON of crappy PCC designs out there and the UMP is no where near the bottom of the pile IMHO.

Oh I totally agree that it gets wayyy too much hate and not enough love. Also, people in the gun community tend change their attitudes about a particular gun purely because it becomes fashionable. It's super annoying when that happens, and it seems to happen constantly. Mindless dog piling.

 

[freeride1]

Same reason that I don't really like shooting my Scorpion Evo3 SBR.

Yup. Nailed it. And the reality of the UMP is that it will always be compared to the MP5 and will miserably fail in that comparison.

It's great for fondling and looking at, totally sucks for shooting.

I recently got completely out of the UMP platform, had a USC fuse conversion by Tommy, German Mags and barrels, even a Gemtech UMP flange can.
I don't miss it one bit, it was $6,000 just sitting in my safe doing nothing.

 

[eodinert]

Oh I totally agree that it gets wayyy too much hate and not enough love. Also, people in the gun community tend change their attitudes about a particular gun purely because it becomes fashionable. It's super annoying when that happens, and it seems to happen constantly. Mindless dog piling.

It's not 'mindless'. It's a 1st generation subgun in a 3rd generation subgun world. It's a world war one gun made with modern plastic. It offers nothing over older designs, except corrosion resistance, drop safety and being cheap to manufacture (but HK doesn't really pass that savings on to the end user). The recoil impulse interferes with the ability use automatic fire effectively, and one could argue it interferes with semi-auto fire. The comb on the stock is high enough that some people have to drive their face into the stock to use the iron sights, only to get battered by the blowback action. The magazines are much bigger than greasegun mags, but manage to hold fewer rounds. If you fold the stock, you double the thickness of the gun, which is already girthy. Its sales in the law enforcement and military markets, as well as the opinions of knowledgeable individuals confirm that it is not a great gun.

It's interesting, but it's not HK's best work. If you disagree, tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[dirtyharriett]

Ok... I asked for it and I got it. Is it a dated design yes... is it bulky... yes... are the magazines especially in 45acp oversized... yes. Is it still sexier than just about any other PCC ever made... YES!!! It still gets more hate than it deserves because it has become trendy to do so. I see the UMP for what it is... the good/bad aspects of it and still very much enjoy it. Each person is entitled to their own opinion and I will continue to keep mine. And for the haters I will leave you with this...