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ATF NOW TAKING COMMENTS on Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons With “Stabilizing Braces”; Withdrawal of Guidance…. UPDATE #3 ATF

MSOGDAWG

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Just came here after making my comment. Was gonna ask others to comment and share.
Also please note if your a brace hater I respectfully ask you to hold your opinions and not clutter this thread please, some of us use braces, some of us dont, I actually have both braced and SBRed.
Thanks and lets try to make difference folks.
 

ghoulardi

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you know I have NEVER SEEN EVEN ONE PERSON that fired the gun with a "brace" like it was intended to be fired.......every one shoulders that thing..I am not so called "hater" just putting out the fact about how they are used, and it really doesn't help that certain makers who make a so called "blade" then put a VELCRO strip on it and laughingly call it a "brace
 
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Guyanaman1963

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Just came here after making my comment. Was gonna ask others to comment and share.
Also please note if your a brace hater I respectfully ask you to hold your opinions and not clutter this thread please, some of us use braces, some of us dont, I actually have both braced and SBRed.
Thanks and lets try to make difference folks.
I fully agree with you. Its not a matter of the brace… but the erosion of gun rights. a brace is a brace regardless of what it is used as.,,, not what it can be used as if you did something else Because it could be done. So we go to jail for something we MAY do (Minority Report)!

I think everyone should be heard and support our rights as law abiding citizens.
M.
 

ORL-LLC

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They (BATF&E) F-ed up when they 1st approved Braces.
Once they allowed it, we cannot allow Take-Backs, like they did with BumpStocks
But truthfully , I am surprised these braces lasted as long as they did.
It was only because of our Last Commander & Chief.

As @ghoulardi said, no one uses them as intended, I have tried, but that does not matter.
They (BATF&E) said it was fine, even fine to shoulder fire them, LIVE WITH IT,.
Don't make up a POINTS SYSTEM shit to including Red-Dots and Flip-up Sights.
That is worst than OUTLAWING Bayonet Lugs
 

Guyanaman1963

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They (BATF&E) F-ed up when they 1st approved Braces.
Once they allowed it, we cannot allow Take-Backs, like they did with BumpStocks
But truthfully , I am surprised these braces lasted as long as they did.
It was only because of our Last Commander & Chief.

As @ghoulardi said, no one uses them as intended, I have tried, but that does not matter.
They (BATF&E) said it was fine, even fine to shoulder fire them, LIVE WITH IT,.
Don't make up a POINTS SYSTEM shit to including Red-Dots and Flip-up Sights.
That is worst than OUTLAWING Bayonet Lugs
I knew you would put in terms that I could understand! 🤣 🤣 🤣
We alll know they are making this stuff up as their going on…. With a $200.00 tax stamp…. Suddenly it becomes safe and ok.
M.
 
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UltraFudd

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They (BATF&E) F-ed up when they 1st approved Braces.
Once they allowed it, we cannot allow Take-Backs, like they did with BumpStocks
But truthfully , I am surprised these braces lasted as long as they did.
It was only because of our Last Commander & Chief.

As @ghoulardi said, no one uses them as intended, I have tried, but that does not matter.
They (BATF&E) said it was fine, even fine to shoulder fire them, LIVE WITH IT,.
Don't make up a POINTS SYSTEM shit to including Red-Dots and Flip-up Sights.
That is worst than OUTLAWING Bayonet Lugs
All that point system is DESIGNED from the git go is to reclassify a bunch of shit that goes bang as evil, subject to importation bans for lack of “spurting” purposes, and shoehorning legit stuff into the NFA. FUCKOFF MY STUFF! 🤬
 

AGG

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you know I have NEVER SEEN EVEN ONE PERSON that fired the gun with a "brace" like it was intended to be fired.......every one shoulders that thing..I am not so called "hater" just putting out the fact about how they are used, and it really doesn't help that certain makers who make a so called "blade" then put a VELCRO strip on it and laughingly call it a "brace

Agreed--- how could ATF not foresee the "misuse" when it approved the brace? :unsure:

Tony
 

AGG

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They (BATF&E) F-ed up when they 1st approved Braces.
Once they allowed it, we cannot allow Take-Backs, like they did with BumpStocks
But truthfully , I am surprised these braces lasted as long as they did.
It was only because of our Last Commander & Chief.

As @ghoulardi said, no one uses them as intended, I have tried, but that does not matter.
They (BATF&E) said it was fine, even fine to shoulder fire them, LIVE WITH IT,.
Don't make up a POINTS SYSTEM shit to including Red-Dots and Flip-up Sights.
That is worst than OUTLAWING Bayonet Lugs

Well said. ;)
Oh--- and none of your licences will be renewed. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Tony
 

AGG

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I knew you would put in terms that I could understand! 🤣 🤣 🤣
We alll know they are making this stuff up as their going on…. With a $200.00 tax stamp…. Suddenly it becomes safe and ok.
M.

Reducing the deficit. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Tony
 

MMissile

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When you try to subvert the rules of the powers that be....they will respond. These people making money off of loop-hole products, just stir the pot. They get rich, make others into criminals, and who's effected?
 

MSOGDAWG

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In my mind, which is experienced (some may say tainted) by 20 years of law enforcement, this whole thing has ZERO true proactive law enforcement capability. It only appears to create not prevent criminal action. Bottom line is they approved them, furthered that with an opinion and NOW this is a personal politics driven gun grab/ban agenda PERIOD. Whether a person shoulders a brace or not does not redesign a gun, if it does then I will extend my braces, remove my ammo, clear the chamber and turn these items into golf clubs, I should be able to do that and follow that line of thinking if thats all it takes for the ATF to change them. This is NOT about braces or shouldering them, this is about taking, regulating and criminalizing YOU the lawful gun owners rights, privileges and properties. If we continue to be blinded by "what did the ATF think was gonna happen" "these loophole blah blah blah" thinking, this will pass and we will have lost more ground in law abiding responsible gun ownership.
 

Guyanaman1963

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I found this in the comments made. Unfortunately there is only 59 comments so far.
When yu label the comment it important to label the header as below.
I picked this comment hoping we can verify the claims and possibly use it as a format”


Comment on FR Doc # 2021-12176​


I am writing today to oppose the ATF proposed rule 2021R-08, “Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached ‘Stabilizing Braces,’” with document ID ATF_FRDOC_0001-0045. This proposal should be discarded for several reasons:

1) It is tantamount to an ex post facto prohibition, as these items have been legal for years and there is no legacy/grandfathering provision. It is upon this criterion alone, unconstitutional.

2) It introduces a novel point system which is creating the effect of law from whole cloth, which is inappropriate in an enforcement, administrative, or tax agency. This is the purview of Congress, not the BATFE.

3) The criteria as noted on ATF Worksheet 4999 are arbitrary and capricious.
Examples (not inclusive):

- Section 2 Accessory design: "Not based on a known shoulder stock design" (known to whom, at what time, and where is the list? Not present. This is a meaningless criterion).

- Section 2 Rear Surface Area: "Material added to increase Rear Surface for shouldering" (How do you know the intent of the manufacturer or designer for "adding material" and what is the standard of minimal material from which you can determine some was added? This is too subjective to be a legal criterion).

- Section 2 Adjustability and Length of Pull: "Adjustable or telescoping attachment designed for shouldering" (Humans have forearms of differing lengths; adjustability is not per force to make something shoulderable. A large man of 6'4 and a small woman of 5'0 need different lengths based on forearm size. The man’s adjustment might be shoulderable by the woman, an attachment designed to be shouldered and suited to the woman might not be shoulderable by the man in this example. Thisis too subjective to be a criterion, and utterly ignores how different tools are used by different people). Even if that were the case, previous ATF letters have indicated that the occasion of shouldering does not indicate a redesign of the item.

- Section 2 Adjustability: "Counterbalance Design that Folds creating Rear Contact Surface" (All solid items are a "contact surface." One could shoulder a Glock pistol, with slide plate seated on the shoulder. Is this suddenly an SBR? This is a nonsensical criterion).

- Section 2 Peripheral accessories: Everything in this section is not germane to the topic. This looks like a retread of the 90s-era "Assault Weapons Ban's and its use of features of a whole firearm as determinative. These items are not the topic of the proposed rule, and their inclusion is inappropriate. Example: the inclusion of backup sights on this list: anyone who uses firearms with any regularity will tell you that things break. Having a backup system does not change the system. Many people shooting pistol mounted optics (on Glock handguns for instance) also include iron sights. By analogy, having a spare tire in your trunk does not make the car a semi-truck.

- Weight Tests: these tests contain strange assemblages of some ancillary items, and without others. The presence of an unloaded magazine (of what type or material? Polymer, Steel, PLA? All these weigh different amounts.) is a confounding and mitigating factor. It renders the test even more useless.

- Suitability for one handed fire: While pistols may be fired with one hand generally, many users shoot them from rests and some even shoot them with standard eye-relief telescopic sights and bipods. My home state of WV issues a deer hunting endorsement for just this kind of firearm. If you watch any modern handgun competition, USPSA or IDPA, and most stages will have shooters using both hands on a pistol. This criterion ignores the development of the last 150 years in handgun design, tactics, and skills. It is an inappropriate criterion as presented.

4) The original design of these items was intended to be used by people with physical disabilities. This attempt to further restrict what has been a lawful product for years is an unfair attack on those same people.

5) At the beginning of the worksheet, it states that even should a particular firearm PASS this test with a score of less than 4, ATF might say its an SBR anyway. Meaning, the criteria are not objective nor valid, and in fact whim can be the determining factor. This is not proper, legal, nor constitutional.

For all the above reasons, I oppose this proposed rule and recommend that it not be implemented.
 

Manofdusk

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I commented, stating that ANY rule to restrict firearms ownership for any reason is against the Constitution of the United States. I also commented that the BATFE has no constitutional authority to make laws that will make law abiding citizens into criminals.
 

Guyanaman1963

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I commented, stating that ANY rule to restrict firearms ownership for any reason is against the Constitution of the United States. I also commented that the BATFE has no constitutional authority to make laws that will make law abiding citizens into criminals.
Awesome! Somewhere along the line ATF forgot they are an “enforcement” agency, not a ”Law Making” body.
M.
 

ORL-LLC

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The problem is,
NONE of those comments will be read by anyone but us "Gun Guys"

The Powers who be are just allowing us to vent and have no intentions of considering a single rational thought. :mad:
 
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